Recommendation? Busse storage - heat treat question.

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purest

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I live in Arizona. It's not my fault, I was born here. It's my fault I'm still here.

Anyway. I originally was looking for a knife to stick in the truck for the in case my wife and I get stuck in the desert/woods on a trip. I have since met and exceeded those needs.

My question is, I thought I'd make a nice little mount in a convenient little storage place in my truck that I basically never get into. But, temperatures in a vehicle stored outside in Arizona summers can get as high as 240F. At least that's the hottest I ever recorded in one of my vehicles. My concern is that I don't know enough about knives to know if it's safe to store it in the truck all the time without ruining it.

Edit: Adding the same question about G10. Micarta and wood, I know well enough how the weather is on them. Resperine-C, I'm scare of here. It seems way more durable than other like materials. But you just don't keep that type of stuff out of climate control here.

(please don't jack the thread to explain ruining sheaths, I know the tolerances on Kydex and leather in AZ). I don't know if that temperature is high enough to even worry about thermocycling via storage.

Any insight (possibly @Garth Reckner maybe) would be greatly appreciated.

As it stands right now, I just have everything put together in the "go bag". But I am so forgetful, I'd forget the go bag...

Thanks in advance.
 
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good question :)

I don't think you have anything to worry about with INFI or sr101 with even the highest car interior temps, even considering cycling up/down like in your desert climate...but yeah, leather and kydex would concern me a bit.

I wouldn't even be concerned with factory Busse handle materials, ie G10, Micarta, Res-C.

I live in TN, and it gets nearly as hot with quadruple the humidity :eek:...INFI has served me well and never let me down in performance or sharpening. :thumbsup:
 
Actually, come to think of it... I can't provide my sources (permission not asked), but am going to edit my post to include the G10 in the question. A friend said they acquired one through the exchange that they were told the handle scale was "loose" or something like that as a result of possible heat from AZ, or someplace like that.

Dude... The total eclipse 2017, I was in Hopkinsville, KY. 107F and 100% humidity. Hottest I have ever been in my life. But I could still cool down in the shade and the pool. 122F here may be a dry heat, but your shoes and tires melt into the asphalt, and it's 110F in the shade. People I know that moved here from humid places almost always have a heat stroke because they don't realize they're so hot because they dry off when they sweat and can't tell how hot they are. It's awful.
 
This is a good question. Looking forward to some insight from others.

my biggest concern regarding vehicle storage has always been theft. I forgot some Scrapyards and Swamprats in my car one night and that was the one night the bandits were out. To add insult to injury they were in a Kifaru pack and they stole my 12 pack of beer.
 
northern1 said:
This is a good question. Looking forward to some insight from others.

my biggest concern regarding vehicle storage has always been theft. I forgot some Scrapyards and Swamprats in my car one night and that was the one night the bandits were out. To add insult to injury they were in a Kifaru pack and they stole my 12 pack of beer.
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That's awful. I always like to think since I'm a night owl and my truck is right in front of my house, my .308 will be more than enough to stop them. But the reality is, they're faster than me, and it's not like you can run around shooting thieves. They could have at least left you the beer to drink off the robbery. Jerks. Hopefully they fell on their haul while running away.
 
I don't think any temperature in a car would affect Busse steel / heat treat even a little bit. Kydex is shaped using a heat gun or an oven - it is designed to cope with heat - so I can't see it being affected.
 
I live in the AZ. desert also, and also had my get home bag stolen. Anyways, I wouldn't and don't worry about damaging any Bussekin Knife left in the truck. Like you said, not a good idea with Kydex, however if in a pack it should be fine. I ruined a Kydex holster by inadvertently leaving on the dash for a bit.
 
Had a whole box of .30 carbine ammo that failed after sitting on the dash in the sun for a couple of hours. The “greenhouse” effect of the windshield directly above a black dash (possibly some magnification, also?) creates an amazing amount of heat. Not a threat to the heat treat on a Busse blade, but can do serious damage to some plastics/polymers. Haven’t heard of Res-C being damaged that way, but I wouldn’t chance it knowingly. Of course the warranty has you covered, but why invite the hassle?

That said, I‘ve stored Res-handled Busses in vehicles in deep south Texas and in southern New Mexico for years with no ill effects whatsoever—just not on the dash in direct sunlight.
 
I am no metallurgist, et al, but I, too, live in central AZ 45 years now (with a 4 year hiatus) and have always stored at least one custom, semi-custom, or high-end production knife in my vehicle since I first acquired one in about '84. Since I did not "discover" Busse until about 8 years ago, most of that long experience is with at least arguably "lesser" heat-treated steels. I have never had a problem of any kind and have noticed no changes in any good steel's ability to hold an edge and take a new one as readily and reliably as when new. So, though no science here, we are talking dozens of knives over decades, for what that is worth to you. (No attempt to "jack," but I have found that Kydex when left out and uninsulated is a problem in summer, yes, but if deep in a pack full of lots and lots of stuff, then all seems ok. Just sayin'.). G-10 and Micarta have been perfectly stable even when left out uninsulated over extended periods (years)).

(Now, for the bigger issue, why the self-Zonie and AZ hate? AZ, though not my favorite 4-Corners state, is one of the most beautiful and topographically and flora (and fauna) - varied places on earth! Again, just sayin'. No need to respond to the off-topic but irresistible side comment, of course.)
 
On a related and possibly helpful note, I have trad climbed in AZ since about '76. Old-school pitons and chalks (back then) and cams, etc (now) plus carabiners (over all eras) have been left in damnably hot cars and trucks over the years without any sacrifice in their ability to "catch" a long, life-threatening fall. This I know for a fact. As a climber I have a tendency to fall with unfortunate regularity :). (A while ago, with spectacularly unfortunate medical consequences (not through gear failure though)). So there's that, too.
 
purest said:
My question is, I thought I'd make a nice little mount in a convenient little storage place in my truck that I basically never get into. But, temperatures in a vehicle stored outside in Arizona summers can get as high as 240F. At least that's the hottest I ever recorded in one of my vehicles. My concern is that I don't know enough about knives to know if it's safe to store it in the truck all the time without ruining it.
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You could Hardly ruin a Properly Heat Treated Blade by leaving it in a Vehicle. You have to understand the Temperature Zone Known as the "Curie" Point.
The curie temperature for a low carbon steel is 770oC or 1390oF. When steel is heated above its curie temperature, it will become austenitic and loses its magnetic properties. When it is cooled back down, it will go through a reverse transformation and will contain no residual magnetic field.
Even left Baking in the Sun it will not reach a temperature hot enough to make the transition to Austenitic/Martinsitic Hardened Steel.
 
This sort of thing has come up before. I cant remember the exact temp Jerry said you have to reach to affect the HT, but it was quite high, north of 500F IIRC.

240F certainly wont affect thermoset materials like G10 and micarta, and I bet that ResC is molded at much higher temp than that.
 
You wont worry you blade or handle material, I think kydex may perhaps possibly ( David Brown David Brown ) suffer a little. That said I have the two halves of an old BWM sheath that came with a knife, probably three or four years ago I separated the halves and threw them up on top of the iron roof of my workshop, so three summers and winters later they are still showing their molding and the long flats have not heated enough to llay flat on the iron (over Christmas just gone we had several days in a row @ 118F in my yard and they were in direct sunlight on iron for several hours).
 
Lived in Arizona for about 20 years and Blythe Cali for 25 (hotter than AZ)
Kydex in the light under a window = badbad kydex deforms around 250 starts to get soft a little before that if it is sustained for long.
No effect to INFI or RES C. On any of my Busse knives, and they have Been on the dash in summer. Hard to hold but no structural or heat treat damage in my experience at all.

Hope that helps

not speculation real world experience.
 
FBM_proto_clip-point_2.jpg FBM-Proto_IonBond-DLC1.jpg FBM_Proto-IonBond_DLC-DiamondBlack.jpg I personally know for sure INFI can handle 425° F. easily for 18 hours..
Had a blade ADLC'd for a guy in Surname who bought it from me many years ago. IonBond Diamond Black ADLC process is 18 hours & high temp during process is 425°. I called Jerry 1st to be sure, he chuckled, said it can easily withstand that. :thumbsup:
 
Busto said:
You could Hardly ruin a Properly Heat Treated Blade by leaving it in a Vehicle. You have to understand the Temperature Zone Known as the "Curie" Point.
The curie temperature for a low carbon steel is 770oC or 1390oF. When steel is heated above its curie temperature, it will become austenitic and loses its magnetic properties. When it is cooled back down, it will go through a reverse transformation and will contain no residual magnetic field.
Even left Baking in the Sun it will not reach a temperature hot enough to make the transition to Austenitic/Martinsitic Hardened Steel.
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This is not exactly true... while critical temperature of steel begin around 1335F the temperature that can ruin hardened steel is around the tempering temperature which can be much lower.

For knife steel 300F-1050F is what we normally use. Once you go above tempering temp, the properties of steel will start to change (mostly the hardness will drop depending on steel type tho)

For INFI I believe it was tempered at around 950F so it would be quite difficult to ruin the heat treat in normal circumstance.
 
shqxk said:
This is not exactly true... while critical temperature of steel begin around 1335F the temperature that can ruin hardened steel is around the tempering temperature which can be much lower.

For knife steel 300F-1050F is what we normally use. Once you go above tempering temp, the properties of steel will start to change (mostly the hardness will drop depending on steel type tho)

For INFI I believe it was tempered at around 950F so it would be quite difficult to ruin the heat treat in normal circumstance.
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"You could Hardly ruin a Properly Heat Treated Blade by leaving it in a Vehicle."
Which is what I stated in my opening Statement^^^^I've spent the Last 15 years Making and Heat Treating Blades.
 
Busto said:
"You could Hardly ruin a Properly Heat Treated Blade by leaving it in a Vehicle."
Which is what I stated in my opening Statement^^^^I've spent the Last 15 years Making and Heat Treating Blades.
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Well, one of my work is heat treating high alloy blades for knife makers and I have heat treated hundreds of blade with over 20 different knife steel just in the previous year.

So I think as a knife maker you should know that once you go above tempering temp, the properties of steel will be changed. it's not about curie point at all. I do agree about "You could Hardly ruin a Properly Heat Treated Blade by leaving it in a Vehicle." part tho.
 
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