Knife manipulation/tricks

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imas560

Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Messages
18
Hello all,
not sure if this is the right area for this question and I don't have access to the search facility. Was wanting to track down some resource material on the manipulation of knives, basically dexterity and/or tricks. Have been looking on and off for a while now but with no joy. I was watching "Indy Jones and the Crystal Skull" and the scene with Shia LaBeouf playing with his switchblade re-ignited my search. Off the top of my head I believe there was a segment in the "Band of Brothers" episode with the paratroopers waiting for the jump for D-Day and a trooper was doing some knife manipulation with a fixed blade. I am not that interested in balisong (prohibited knife in New Zealand), more in the area of fixed blades and folders. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
This will show you the two basics, the spin and the twirl. You just have to sit through the first couple minutes of riverboat scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEB0_R_TRlY

I started with a rubber knife doing these two, then I doubled them up, added combinations and then overhand and underhand passes and tosses, then behind the back and under the leg. I then got a cheapo Pakistani blade the same basic size and shape of the knife I use the most and took off the edge and point. I can now do it with almost everything; folders and fixed blades up to bowie size.

Here's Scott Sonnon showing a few more details: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGOskjTfxis&feature=related

Play around with this for a couple days and your friends will think you're a ninja before you know it. Get the spin and the twirl down. Then try a double spin, by turning your hand over to facilitate the second revolution as you would with a balisong (it's actually just reversing the direction, but turning the hand over gives the illusion of continuing in the same direction. You can do this over and over 'til you get bored). Then try a double spin immediately followed by a twirl. The double spin alone actually looks pretty cool. Just like learning the secret to a magic trick, it's almost retarded when you realize how simple it is.

Here's some footage of Laci Szabo doing some cool tricks:

http://www.szaboinc.com/szabo_video_med.html

None of this stuff has any combat application other than rapid grip change, but it looks cool, helps with dexterity and hand/eye coordination and it might make people think you know what you're doing.

Have fun, don't cut yourself.
 
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Thanks H2H907, now for the part where I look like a complete tool, I have the "Riddle of Steel" dvd at home so I pretty much know what I'll be watching tonight. Also checked out the "Things I Do" clip, and believe he was drilling with Mr. Keating in reverse grip? I'm itching to give the double spin a go. Thanks again for the links and the technique
 
imas560 said:
Also checked out the "Things I Do" clip, and believe he was drilling with Mr. Keating in reverse grip?
Click to expand...

Yup, that's "Uncle Jim".

I also just edited to add a Scott Sonnon link, if you missed it scroll up and take a look. You'll see how a few simple variations on the basics can make things more interesting.

I have a lot of standing-around-doing-nothing time at work some days, and my gear bag is always there. I get lotsa practice between sets of pushups and crossword puzzles.
 
Thanks a lot as well. I just stumbled on this thread but the Keating vid was excellent. I am definitely going to buy Riddle of the steel. I already had the spin down from just screweing around but the twirl must have taken me 15 rewinds to get. I just could not seem to grasp how simple it was yet how awkward it felt when James made is look so fluid and easy.

As for combat applications all that practice is going to make it a lot easier to not drop your knife when under stress.

It is also going to kill a lot of time.
 
Sorry to over-post, but I forgot; When you turn your hand over to facilitate a double spin (which is actually one revolution), switch your index and middle fingers. If you hold it only between your thumb and index finger the handle will travel and not set up properly for a smooth re-grip.

Lest I've confused someone thus far, I'll try to elaborate.

Hold the knife in front of you, point at 12:00, pinkie edge of your hand toward the ground. At this position, pinch the handle between the thumb and forefinger at the pivot point (you have to play around to find where that is on your kinfe).

Now, flick the knife inward into a spin, bringing the point back to 6:00, pointing directly at yourself. Now do this again, only instead of stopping the knife at 6:00, as it approaches, roll your hand palm-down, and roll your wrist around following the outward arc of the point. If you switch your index and middle fingers during this step, it will go a lot more smoothly. You can continue this indefinitely or stop it with the heel of the palm after a single revolution/double spin.

Hope that helps, but you're going to find that most of this comes from practice and feel. And yes, it's an excellent way to kill time. Fun and meditative for me.
 
I learned the twirl and at first i had a hell of a time but then I realized that i have much smaller hands than Keating and instead of using my index and middle finger to pivot I used my index and ring finger and bang it just clicked.

I have a whole bunch of different knives but I think I found one of the best handle materials ever for knife manipulation. The Rosarms Rescuer I own has a cool stcked birch bark handle that is ideal. It seems to have just the perfect amount of grip and is very light so it gives the knife a really great balance right where it should be.
It is kind of like a durable cork ,perfectly smooth but grippy even when wet.

The one I have is rare and expensive but there are lots of cheaper Rosarms with the birchbark handle and regular stainless. Mine is stainless damscus.
0_13d75_724bc739_L-1.jpg


Here is a Fox2 with the Birch but it might be a little long for such a light weight handle.
The Fox1 is perfect though.
RosArms-Fox-II-01.jpg


When I mastered the flip I tried all my knives and damn these work good.
 
That knife looks like it has good balance and an ideal handle shape for this kind of stuff. I also find that somewhat flat handles work best.

Even though I'm not really a Cold Steel fan, I like their Peacekeeper model (out of production) for this. They're fairly inexpensive, light weight, symmetrical and have a nice flat handle. My Wilson Model 2 does okay, but its contoured handle has a downward curve that sets the balance off for twirling. Same goes for my Patton Kasper Grande, but its handle is flatter (bigger though).

I stopped doing anything but the double twirl with my Grande after it slipped out of my hand and landed, on its edge, on my bathroom sink. Yes, I was practicing in front of the mirror. Fortunately it's L6, so even though it broke off a nice chunk of enamel and gouged the cast iron, the edge barely dinged and buffed out easily. When I get my Camerer Eastside Fighter, I will NOT be doing any fancy tricks with it. Cost of blade aside, I doubt if the rounded stag handle will lend itself to anything other than a grip change. Then again, it's not really the sort of blade you'd use in reverse grip, so kind of a moot point.

My EDC is a Spyderco Chinook 3. My buddy owns a knife shop, and got a well-used one in on a trade. He gave it to me and we took the edge and point off. When I'm bored at work, I whip it out and start flipping it around. It's fun to watch people's eyes pop open. Also good advertising for me, because most guys who come in want to learn how to do it, and end up asking a lot of questions about what I teach.

Soo, how's everyone's homework coming along? I'd actually like to see this thread somewhere where it would get more exposure, particularly since this isn't something exclusive to FMA. The Balisong forum isn't fitting, even though it's similar stuff.

Got video?
 
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