How To Para 3 drops shut pivot all the way tightened.

[shewless]

K killgar knows more about washer sizes than anyone here that comes to mind currently, maybe he can help. Due to the construction of the pivot bushing, it may be true that the washers are worn or have been intentionally honed, or changed. Also, are the body screws are tight?

Body screws are tight. I can certainly take them out and measure them but it would be useful to know the standard size.

 

[shewless]

If you're going to order from the U.S. there are a few places to get washers.

They look like phosphor bronze washers. I don't know the thickness of the washers or the o.d. or i.d. but if you mic that you should be able to order what you need.

You may even bump up a few thousandths in thickness to fix your issue, if necessary but there are a few factors that come into play for that to work.

You most certainly checked this but maybe worth a mention....are both washers, in fact, actually present? Make sure someone didn't forget to put one back in.

You can get a selection of sizes and thicknesses of bronze washers at knifekits.com or usaknifemaker.com.

Both washers are there. I actually did disassemble and reassemble the knife when I received it. There was some chunky threadlocker in there and I get the impression the knife was not previously taken apart (which the previous owner confirmed). The knife is almost 5 years old.
The action didn't change from before or after I disassembled.

 

[J. Doyle]

Body screws are tight. I can certainly take them out and measure them but it would be useful to know the standard size.

Man......just out of sheer curiosity, I've been googling washer size for the para 3 and NOBODY can list it......lol. There are lots of threads and same exact questions from many all over the web. But apparently there aren't any para 3 owners that also own a micrometer, dial caliper or even a machinist ruler.

It shouldn't really be that difficult.

 

[killgar]

K killgar knows more about washer sizes than anyone here that comes to mind currently, maybe he can help. Due to the construction of the pivot bushing, it may be true that the washers are worn or have been intentionally honed, or changed. Also, are the body screws are tight?

There's a vendor on Etsy that sells replacement Phosphorous Bronze washers for the Para 2 and Para 3 (the vendor indicates both knives use the same size).

I've never purchased them, so I cannot vouch for either the washers or the seller.

Trying to replace original washers with aftermarket ones can sometimes be difficult. Many knife makers have washers made specifically to fit their knives. And if the pivot is a metric measurement, the washers will be metric, and metric aftermarket washers are harder to find, if not impossible (depending on size). From what I've seen, generic aftermarket PB washers made for knives tend to be measured in fractions of inches (but there are some metrics out there). However, if the washers are .010 thick or more it's possible to file them, both inner and outer diameter, in order to produce a better fit.

But it looks like there are people out there producing direct replacement washers for a variety of knives.

 

[J. Doyle]

There's a vendor on Etsy that sells replacement Phosphorous Bronze washers for the Para 2 and Para 3 (the vendor indicates both knives use the same size).

I've never purchased them, so I cannot vouch for either the washers or the seller.

Trying to replace original washers with aftermarket ones can sometimes be difficult. Many knife makers have washers made specifically to fit their knives. And if the pivot is a metric measurement, the washers will be metric, and metric aftermarket washers are harder to find, if not impossible (depending on size). From what I've seen, generic aftermarket PB washers made for knives tend to be measured in fractions of inches (but there are some metrics out there). However, if the washers are .010 thick or more it's possible to file them, both inner and outer diameter, in order to produce a better fit.

But it looks like there are people out there producing direct replacement washers for a variety of knives.

I saw the etsy store listing as well. They don't list the size either. I'm pretty confident that guy isn’t making or having someone else make custom washers for that knife.

Generally the washers I (and most of my custom maker friends) use are made with inside diameter for standard size pivot pins and are a few thousandths oversized. The outside diameter can vary widely and can be turned down.

I have phosphor bronze washers in .005", .010", .015" and .020" thicknesses for 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4" pivot pins.

I don't have first hand knowledge of a para 2 or 3 but it seems like, if the bushing is thicker than the blade, you would measure the bushing, find a washer that slips over it (maybe that's the issue...bushing diameter??) and get the appropriate diameter washer in appropriate thickness.

 

[killgar]

I saw the etsy store listing as well. They don't list the size either. I'm pretty confident that guy isn’t making or having someone else make custom washers for that knife.

Generally the washers I (and most of my custom maker friends) use are made with inside diameter for standard size pivot pins and are a few thousandths oversized. The outside diameter can vary widely and can be turned down.

I have phosphor bronze washers in .005", .010", .015" and .020" thicknesses for 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4" pivot pins.

I don't have first hand knowledge of a para 2 or 3 but it seems like, if the bushing is thicker than the blade, you would measure the bushing, find a washer that slips over it (maybe that's the issue...bushing diameter??) and get the appropriate diameter washer in appropriate thickness.

I don't know where that vendor gets his washers from, but everyone who sells aftermarket washers has to get them from somewhere (including vendors like USA Knifemaker, Knifekits, etc). There are businesses that will produces batches of custom PB washers. Some enterprising individual might decide to have some made if they think there is a market for them and they can make a profit. I've purchased several custom folder/switchblade parts over the years that, sadly, were only available from the individual who sold them, because he paid to have batches of them made (pivots, sears, rocker arms, leaf springs, even blades).

As far as sizing washers, I replaced a set of worn-out plastic/nylon washers in an Al Mar SERE 2000 recently. 3/8th" OD was a very close match, but I had to enlarge the 3/16th" ID out to 5mm (the pivot size). 3/16th" ID was too small, and 1/4" ID would have been too big.

 

[J. Doyle]

I don't know where that vendor gets his washers from, but everyone who sells aftermarket washers has to get them from somewhere (including vendors like USA Knifemaker, Knifekits, etc). There are businesses that will produces batches of custom PB washers. Some enterprising individual might decide to have some made if they think there is a market for them and they can make a profit. I've purchased several custom folder/switchblade parts over the years that were only available from the individual who sold them, because he paid to have batches of them made (pivots, sears, rocker arms, leaf springs, even blades).

As far as sizing washers, I replaced a set of worn-out plastic/nylon washers in an Al Mar SERE 2000 recently. 3/8th" OD was a very close match, but I had to enlarge the 3/16th" ID out to 5mm (the pivot size). 3/16th" ID was too small, and 1/4" ID would have been too big.

That is true.

Now I wish I had one to see for myself just to satisfy my own curiosity.

 

[shewless]

I took apart the knife and I measured the washers with my calipers. YMMV.

mm:
ID: 5mm
OD: 10.9mm
Thickness: .26mm

inch:
ID: .199 inch
OD: .429 inch
Thickness: .010 inch

Here are pics of both sides of the liners, washers, and blade:

https://imgur.com/a/jEFR6xX

 

[WValtakis]

The lip here (created by wear) is what's keeping you from tightening the pivot further, either flipping the washers like I mentioned or carefully sanding off that lip should help.

 

[shewless]

The lip here (created by wear) is what's keeping you from tightening the pivot further, either flipping the washers like I mentioned or carefully sanding off that lip should help.

Good to know. Do you mean the dark ring or actually metal around the inside diameter?

Since I had the knife opened I flipped the washers so that the sides with the dark rings are facing the liner. I also cleared out some "crud" to ensure the pivot bushing could seat into the liner fully.

The knife is still "very" drop shut even with the pivot screws tightened all the way but at least the side to side blade play seems to be gone (both when blade is locked and when I activate the compression lock).

Next time I have it opened I may try and sand the washers. My concern is by sanding them I'd make them "thinner" but I suppose if there is a "lip" preventing things from being flush I can try that next time.

Thank you all for the tips.

 

[WValtakis]

Do you mean the dark ring or actually metal around the inside diameter?

The metal, there is a tiny step just inside the dark ring...that's the original thickness of the washers where it was hidden under the pivot bushing.

 

[Sergeua]

Got pm2 recently with s45 on board, so recent release. It was drop shutty and all but would have play even with lock engaged. If tightened, it would seize and when i backout the screws a bit, it would start to have this play. Just couldn't dial things in. Took it apart to clean and to also see what's going on with it with a caliper.
Took the blade out and put the washers back like so.

This is to measure the clearance between the scales to accommodate for blade and washers.

Here is a picture to show what I'm measuring exactly. Just put things down to take the picture, so it may look like there are some gaps in the process.

Next I measured blade with washers.

So, plus minus, I figured there is more than enough clearance in there and tried to apply thicker grease I had in the pivot to fill in the gaps.
Put it all together, tightened screws all the way down and blade was already perfectly centered. This was exciting as I didn't have to adjust things and made me happy with my purchase.
In the end, the action is just drop shut. When lock is engaged, it's feels solid. If I disingage the lock I can muscle and detect some play. It's tiny. Don't have washer measurements, but they were identical and brand new.

 

[shewless]

Got pm2 recently with s45 on board, so recent release. It was drop shutty and all but would have play even with lock engaged. If tightened, it would seize and when i backout the screws a bit, it would start to have this play. Just couldn't dial things in.

I found a few posts similar to this. I think my problem is unique in that it is not possible for me to make my pivot tight enough to "seize" the action. Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[Sergeua]

I found a few posts similar to this. I think my problem is unique in that it is not possible for me to make my pivot tight enough to "seize" the action. Thank you for sharing your experience.

That was just how it was before I got into it. After I did what I did, I tightened the screws all the way and it has no affect on the action.

 

[shewless]

That was just how it was before I got into it. After I did what I did, I tightened the screws all the way and it has no affect on the action.

Thanks for pointing that out. Sounds like it’s somewhat expected behaviour to have a tight pivot screw and drop shut action.

 

[MUAlum2013]

I'm having the same issue. My dlc Para 3 is tightened all the way. It drop shuts and tiny bit of blade play. All my other Para 3s you tightened it the blade gets stiff doesnt open or close without using your other hand or if you loosen the pivot a bit. So like normal. But this Para 3 idk what's happening. It doesn't get tighter. All the way tightened it drop shuts without any movement and some play when blade is open. Knife is brand new and stamp on the blade says 23. I looked at the pivot set up is the same as my other Para 3s that do tightened. Looks like a barrel pivot. Instead of 2 piece bushing system it's all 1 piece. I think barrel pivot is the correct term. My Sage 5 doesn't get AS tight but I know that's due to having the bushing system but why does this happen with my Para 3? I had asked if Spyderco made a change for 2023 Para 3s and was told no. The pivot is the same as the 2022 Para 3s or 2021. So I don't understand why this is happening to this specific Para 3 but not my other ones. I know this is an old thread so maybe I'll just create a new thread.

Edit: I do think something is going on bc no matter what I do blade doesn't center. I've taken it apart and put it back so maybe it's related?

 

[stillshot2]

I had a similar issue with a pm2 where when it wore in after a couple months of use it developed blade play that could not be tightened out. I sold the knife wanting a bigger one anyways and found the solution to the problem. The police 4. It doesn't have a bushing system.