Review : Hatchet from Gransfors Brux

Cliff, I nearly missed this review and I'm well pleased I've found it.

Two points I would like to make:
Sweden has both soft and hardwood, but the huge majority of trees are Pine. Smaller branches become quite brital in winter and rarely need cutting right through. Summer wood reverts back to normal. Having some permafrost, they tend not to dig into earth (stones), but they do do a fair amount in snow. They also split their logs as often as not. The axe works well for them.

To compliment their axes they carry a sharp utility knife such as a Frost.

The cultural difference I make is to try and put your review in perspective. Its not meant to be a direct critisism, but I do think its a little hard to compare the shaving qualities of an axe to a knife which is expected to have a keen edge. If you carry a little sharp utility with your axe then what's the problem? Here I go again with my new pet hate: "the man who can only have one tool on him at a time syndrome".

I know your main interest is in the angles, bevels, grind and steels and how they perform. I think Gransfors should be complemented at puting on an edge to their axes that is too fine (which can be improved) rather than having one that's a dog and needs an enthusiast with a grinder.

Finaly, I have one of those Gerber axes. It takes an edge, but its soft as hell and dings readity.

Looking forward to that saw review.
 
I think the idea of double bitted axes/hatchets certainly has its advantages. Similar in nature to multi-bladed folding knives, you can sharpen the various edges to suit particular tasks. However with axes, unlike folders, you lose functionality with a double bitted axe by virtue of removing the poll. The poll has many uses, especially if you have a flay poll, but even if you don't for general pounding but with and on. Another significant problem is that it is significantly more dangerous, even when not in use. Consider how you normally temp. "store" a hatchet and what effect a bit has where the poll usually is.

In regards to working around the wood, to reduce the contact area, well yes you can, but generally you want to control the direction of the fall and this means that you cut only in two sections (basically facing the back and front of the direction of the fall). As well, there are many situations where it is difficult to do this, on felled wood for example.

Greenjacket, it is certainly true that branches can be broken rather than cut. In fact you will find many references especially in the older texts where tools were far more specialized, that branches were broken off with a club rather than cut with a axe. The simple reason being that a felling axe only had the necessary durability to cut down a tree and not enough to be able to limb it out, the latter is far more stressful than the former. As well you don't tend to do them at the same time, except in emergency situations.

As for the "shaving" ability of the axe. It is a common misconception that axes are blunt and the edges are thick. You will see for example someone commenting about a blade "It has a edge like an axe", meaning it is very thick and/or dull. In fact quality axes used for felling are both very sharp and very thin. The exact geometry depends on the type of tree but starts at about 10 degrees for soft woods, easily under half "tactical" blades. As for the polish, assuming you are grinding the bevels to meet, the higher the polish the more durable the edge will be, as well as the greater the chopping ability.

As for the edge holding, yes, if you have a knife, then you are probably not going to be concerned about the ability of the axe to hold a razor edge as the degree of degredation an edge has to experience in order to determine an appreciable difference in chopping is relatively large because the very edge state is not a huge factor in the chopping performance, unlike on cutting rope / food etc., where it is critical.

I agree completely in regards to the thin edge, I would rather that all makers undercut their edges. It is trivial to raise the bevel on a tool, it is *very* labor intensive to lower it.

Lastly, In regards to your comments about some of the things I have done in this review, it is exactly right that many of them will be meaningless depending on how you use your axe. The edge holding aspect you commented on in the above for example. As you stated, if you are carrying a small knife, then a lot of what I did is of no concern as the hatchet will not be used to whittle wood, nor any other fine cutting.

However, my perspective in doing a review is not to "rate" the product as I have no desire to promote any product. I simply describe the performance over a range of applications and strive to do so in a meaningful manner. It is up to the reader to pick out those applications that are relevant to them and then rate the tool based on the described performance qualifying it by the relative need for each appication.

As a rule of thumb, I don't include such a perspective from my point of view in the review, as it is important only if you are me. However I do appreciate when others do, such as the comments you made in the above. Both for the information gained (the scope of work I do expands constantly because of exactly this) as well simply because I am interested in how people use their blades, even if (actually more so) they are different than my methods.

The saw review is basically finished, I just have to compile the information. It should be up later this week.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 03-24-2001).]
 
Cliff,
Your reviews are greatly valued as they have a certain style and the professional approach that other reviews lack. There is room for both and all add to our appreciation of our hobby.

The "value for money" and "performance in the practical and correct environment" answers are fraught with dificulties when placed in a review as everyone has their own ideas. What works for one may not for another. What should work in theory from the armchair may well not out in the field. So I would agree that you should stay clear of them and stick with your findings from your tests.

However, many who read your reviews are looking for inspiration and confidence. Your reviews become part of their purchasing decision on products that for many are their first venture into the area. All they need is to be sure that they are not getting a duff product.

An introduction of how the reviewed item falls within the greater picture and what ought to be expected of it would be enjoyed. Also, in conclusion of how you think the item would fair in the real world and its limitations would also not go a miss. It only needs to be general, as others I am sure, like myself, many will want to add their two pence worth.

You would be suprise how far your influence travels and what following you have. Just be careful you don't write too dry and loose those new to the sport.
 
Steven Dick, of TN, did a review of the same hatchet, I believe, and one of the smaller Brunsfors axes in the May '98 issue.

Since, like me, he is old enough to have come from a generation where our fathers likely spent a great deal of time on the ends of axe handles, I feel he comes from a slightly different perspective than someone younger might have on the subject.

I've forgotten all I once knew, but when ages 12-14, spent a lot of time working up wood for fireplaces. This will kill you, but where we lived in Missouri, we burned mostly oak, a lot of black locust, as much Osage orange as I could try to handle, (not very much) and even occasionally --
redface.gif
this is a very painful memory
redface.gif
-- some black walnut. I know it was a terrible thing to do, but it was free and we really needed the wood to heat our home. Please forgive me.




------------------
Asi es la vida

Bugs
 
GREENJACKET:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">An introduction of how the reviewed item falls within the greater picture and what ought to be expected of it would be enjoyed. Also, in conclusion of how you think the item would fair in the real world and its limitations would also not go a miss.</font>
Click to expand...

I can understand the importance of such and do in fact have a strong desire to include comments towards that goal. However what has always stopped me is that I have no desire for my reviews to end up being read as "this is good - buy it" or "this is poor - don't buy it". By avoiding making qualitative judgements I do force the reader to do some work on their own which I think is critical.

Now I will make more qualitative statements on the forums (this is better than that) because there can be a back and forth here and its not just my opinion being stated with no way to refute it. However in the reviews there is obviously only just my viewpoint thus it can get overstrengthened (obviously) so I tread very lightly with "buy this" kind of statements.

I think what I may start doing is to add more of this in the thread that I start here so it is in a more open forum that my webpage. The kind of comments that you indicate are obviously welcome.

As an update on the hatchet, I just got it back from another 2 week session of splitting, chopping and limbing. This time the edge was worn down to nothing and it had chipped / dented in about 12 places. A couple of the larger ones were about 1 - 1.5 mm in size.

Now on the positive most were dents and after steeling only about half were still visible. Even better after some light work on sandpaper (10-20 strokes on 1 and 0.5 micron) it was back to shaving smoothly.

So on the whole you have a hatchet that sharpens very easily, cuts exceptionally well, with a secure and ergonomic handle and decent leather sheath for about $50 US. The only downside is that if you use this outside of cutting in clear wood you can expect to see damage on a regular basis (if what I have seen is the expected behavior of course).

Now you can of course simply raise the edge bevel. I might do this after I do some more comparision chopping. I would assume a slight additional bevel to say 15 degrees would seriously cut down on the damage and since it will be small (1 mm deep or so). It should not effect the cutting performance that seriously.

I would also like to see if one of the higher end cutlery steels would be able to produce a hatchet that would be more durable with this kind of edge geometry. Obviously the higher allow steels at around 60 RC would resist denting and rolling much better, and they should still be tough enough. CPM-3V being an obvious choice.


-Cliff
 
Cliff,

Higher end steels will be tested. Placing an edge with some weight behind it at the end of a long wooden shaft produces huge forces. Its going to be interesting, and I just hope nobody makes something that goes and shatters.

What are the Aussi competition loggers using?

Those old timers had long dark nights to rework their edges.
 
Yes, this is true, if a steel can survive used as an axe head there is little that could harm it. However that being said, it is not uncommon to see hatchets made from 440C and even ATS-34 and the ones I have seen (only in pictures) do not look that heavily ground. I have not used these, but would be interested to hear about experiences with them.

You will probably be as surprised to hear this as I was, but what I have heard is that those axes are cast stainless steel. A couple of things need to be kept in mind however that put that choice into perspective.

First off, what you want here is optimum performance for one chop. There is no requirement for long term durability. Second off every time they chop through a bad knot you will see them inspecting the edge for damage and I have seen them blow a large piece out of one doing such.

As well you want uniform performance out of the equipment, confidence that you are using the exact same tool as they guy chopping against you. Casting does give this consistent geometry.

I am thinking of getting one this summer and running it against a traditional large felling axe and see the kind of gain in performance it has, as well as if it has any durability problems for long term use.

They are expensive though, last I heard it was something like $250 - $500 US for the head.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

Here's something that may interest you. I've heard rumors (though I hardly doubt them) that one of Busse Combat's new models is a hatchet. An INFI hatchet! That would be a mean chopper.

Here's a link to the post:

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum39/HTML/001216.html

I think that in the next week or so, pics of the new models will be posted with names, specs, etc., but I can't be sure.

 
Cliff, the higher price is probably right. I've only seen the sport a couple of times on TV but it is really impressive. The balance and dexterity is remarkable. Serious business.
I'd think it would be more like comparing a Tour de France racing bike and a mountain bike.

Busse hatchet, great, so long as its not too short. Not much shorter than the forest axe, please.
 
There was some mention of an INFI hatchet last year, there were even some pictures posted of a "combat hatchet", but I could not turn them up in a search. It would be interesting to see however in whatever form it eventually takes.

Greenjacket :

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I'd think it would be more like comparing a Tour de France racing bike and a mountain bike.</font>
Click to expand...

One thing to keep in mind is that the difference between places in these competitions can be as little as 1/100'th of a second. So a performance gain of a few percent would obviously be worth some serious money. However for the regular user how much money are you willing to pay for that? Personally not that much.

It should be fun to work with however.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 04-16-2001).]
 
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