What is a Traditional knife & what is a tactical knife....to you?

T

Tightwad

Joined
Jul 22, 2001
Messages
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To help define these two types of knives what would be the key
features of each design that would make up each one??

We all know we can start with black (ick!) but what other important
point do you see??
 
Well when I think of "tactical": Black handles- G-10, zytel, carbon fibers, micarta. I think of black coated blades, tanto points, serrations, cord wrapped handles, camo patterns on the blade, and the general stank of testosterone.
When I think of "traditional": stag, bone, MOP, wood, ivory, and various fossilized stuff as handle materials. I think of slip-joints, traditional fixed blade patterns like drop-point hunters, bowies, fighters (think "Patriot" knife). I think of stuff that my grandpa or dad may have toted. I think of warm fuzzy stuff as opposed to taking out a sentry with my face all blacked out etc. Traditional has a different kind of testosterone stank. Don't ask me to define that.;)

just my .02, Mongo
 
Traditionals definitely should not be one handers. They should strongly resemble the kinds of patterns that one sees in pocket knife collecting books. That said, I see nothing wrong with modern stainless steels or talonite as a blade material of the use of modern synthetics for handles. The basic form is more important than handle or blade material. Afterall, a Kit Carson Model 4 or a Robert Terzoula ATCF with stag or jigged bone handles is still a tactical in my opinion while my Gary Crowder trapper with micarta scales and a 154CM blade is definitely an updated traditional to me.
 
It's all a matter or the times.

What we are talking about is a
knife for self defence or fighting.
back in the 50's to early 60's,
that would have been the classic
Italian style switchblade. In the
late 60's because of knife laws
and the great popularity of the
Buck folding hunter various
similarly styled lockbacks became
the tactical knife of their day.
The 30's and 40's saw toothpicks
and slimjacks in this role.

The difference today is that these
are modern times and modern times
demand modern materials (G-10, CF,
Titanium and new steels). All things
are influenced by the culture of the
day and that seems to be a sudo military
mentality that is fed by movies and
a somewhat paranoid, watchful stance
brought about by recent and past
terrorist acts.

If we wanted to, we could again make
a tactical knife that had all the
warmness and quality of the past
eras. Just look at some of the
custom folders made over the past
10 years. Maybe that will be the
next trend? You might say that these
materials would not be durable enough,
but the truth of the matter is that
99% of the knives that we get so
excited about are simply an object
in our pocket that gives us great
pleasure, simply because we appreciate
it's particular style and functions. It
will do the day to day job 99% of the
time regardless of whether it is made
of classic or modern materials.

Of course if you Really are someone in
Special Forces, boy do we have the Knifes For You!!...
 
Just to blur the lines a little more.
What about a CRKT M-16 Style knife
with flipper only (don't need the
thumb stud), with graceful stag
scales and gold anodized steel
liners?

-Rebus
 
My Evans forged bowie with its coffin handle is a tactical knife (about 150 years ago) It was/is a hard use, utility and/or self defense knife.

Times change, knife design evolves.
I consider the latest defination of tactical to be a modern (super steels, manmade handle materials, the latest lock designs), self-defense, hard use utility knife.

A traditional knife is a style/design that has been around for a few generations and has remained fundamentally unchanged.
Which discounts Reb's M-16...sorry ;)

This was beaten with a stick in the custom forum, a week or two ago...if you feel like digging.

:D
 
Tactical Knife = Knife intended for combat, survival, or self defense; emphasis on ruggedness, speed of deployment, and resistence to the elements.
Traditional knife = Knife intended for outdoor activities, or general utility; emphasis on efficiency, appearance, and comfort.

The knives can be identical, what distinguishes the two is how, and to whom they are marketed. Traditional knives were marketed to sportsmen and craftmen, as a tool to supplement other tools in their kit, the knives were often smaller and lighter, but, these guys would probably take along an axe, a gun, a cleaver, and anything else they might need. The tactical knives of today are marketed to folks who would rather carry a gun, and to those who travel in the modern outdoors. Unfortunately, we can no longer travel into a national park with a handgun on our belt, a shotgun over our shoulder, and a mule team full of camp gear. We have to travel lighter and we have to minimize our impact on the environment, as a result our knives have to be more versatile and more reliable, even if they compromise efficency and aesthetics.

n2s
 
It doesn't really matter if you take a traditional knife or a tactical knife into the woods with you, if you take one knife to do all jobs it will have to give up efficency in some tasks to be usable for everything you might need a knife for. I also do not agree that a tactical knife is neccessarily more versatile or more reliable than a traditional knife. For the most part tactical knives are single bladed. That in itself limits the versatility of these knives. I have also seen traditional knives that are well over 100 years old and work as well as they did the day they were made. Many of these knives have seen incredibly hard work as well.

Tactical knives need to be able to withstand whatever elements that they must encounter. For that reason they will normally be made from stainless or coated low alloy steel. For the same reason they will tend to have tough synthetic handles. These materials will stand up to the enviromental conditions that a tactical knife may see better than natural materials will. Stabilized wood being a possible exception to this, though I guess you could argue that stabilized wood is not truely a natural material.

In my opinion there are two classifications of traditional. Traditioal in design and traditional in design and materials used in manufacture. The first of these will be knives that follow traditional styles and patterns, but use modern materials such as stainless and carbon fiber, G-10 or micarta. The second of these classifications will use low alloy carbon steels, natural handle materials (the exception being plastics such as celluloid that have been used in the manufacture of knife handles for well over 100 years) and possibly even use traditional ways to manufacture the knife. Of course these knives will also follow traditional styles and patterns.

To me, tactical knives have a certain look that makes them easy to identify. I am not really able to describe that look, but you all recognize a tactical knife when you see one. Even if it has a more dressed up look.

Will the tactical styles of today be considered traditional knives in one hundred years? I think that some of them will have that kind of staying power, while others will end up fading away. This is as it has always been and always will be, as long as our laws allow us to own knives, but this is a topic for anther thread on another forum.
 
Tactical knives are designed for a situation in which tactics are used. In other words, they are intended to be suitable for attacking or defending against attacks.

Traditional knives are intended for use in hunting, camping, or hiking - tool sfor use in outdoors recreation (or indoors - I suppose) A multi-tool fits the usage I think of for traditional, although its design is probably not traditional. The tools thereon, and their intended uses, are traditional.

Thus the stereotypical reaction you get when you produce a tactical knife, even when you try to rationalize it as a tool. Non-knife nuts are not stupid, they are simply aware of some of the reasons for having such a knife (and not aware of other reasons for having it).

If you produced instead a 5" handle, 4" blade SAK (to be a little ridiculaous of course) the reactions are not likely to be as, well, reactionary.

Well, you asked what the difference was to me.
 
You made a point that many knife nuts are very reluctant to concede. One handers clearly have a great potential as weapons and non-knife people clearly recognize that. Saying that a tactical has great weapon potential in no way means that carrying one handers is not legitimate for non-violent purposes, it just means that the aggressive possibilities of such a design are readily apparent to non-knife nuts just as they are apparent to knife nuts. In contrast, a traditional two hand opener is correctly perceived as less readily used for defense or offense purposes and will more likely be seen as a tool. Obviously, this does not mean that some anti-knife people won't roll their eyes at an SAK or stockman (I've had it happen to me for carrying a large stockman by a friend of my sister who is an Atlanta cop.).
 
hmmm... we can't define our knives but the reaction of sheeple can we?

I mean, to one of us, a William Henry folder would be a really sweet folder that we would be proud to carry to go with a formal evening (I know I would)... or a Chris Reeve Mnandi... or [insert name of you favourite gentleman's folder here]...

but to sheeple... their reaction is always 2-fold...
a) Hey is that withing the legal limit?/Who are you going to stab with that?/Wow, you're a dangerous guy.
b) Oh... it does look... quite nice... but is it legal to carry it?

*sigh* I just feel that just because a knife is a one-hander, it shouldn't be left out... some examples of non-tactical knives (at least I don't believe they were designed for tactical purposes to begin with) are:

CR Mnandi (damn sweet little knife)
SOG Tomcat in cocobolo
Any WH folder (pretty sure none of their designs are 'tactical' but I think all are one-handers)

maybe we can define a traditional knife based on it's design and purpose... not on it's mechanism or material. Like where do we draw the line? Chronologically? Think about it... for the longest time... knives were tools... something people carried around for convenience and necessity. If we restricted the definition of a traditional knife to only slipjoint and lockbacks... well why THAT decision? Traditionally, lockbacks are mechanisms that were introduced... not too long ago, right? Really traditional knives would be fixed blades and slip joints.

So if we include lockbacks into this hallowed hall... well, we've opened the floodgate... where do we draw the line? Should linerlocks be discounted? What about Kershaw's Double Cross? Damn it's not just a liner lock... it's a MODIFIED liner lock AND it's a one-hander. But looking at it, it looks like it could sit in a display case next to a coupla Case penknives (and I know of at least one persone who keeps his that way). And surely many Al Mar folders (apart from the SERE series) aren't 'tactical'... What about collar locks like in Opinels? Damn that company's been around for the longest time and that design has been around, I'll bet, longer than lockbacks. Do we discount them too?

I'm, by no means, trying to start a flame war... but just like to moot that we try defining a knife by it's intended purpose as we perceive it... and not be so quick to draw lines and lay down definitions. :)

p/s I'm, by no means, a knife historian so if I've made any historical mistakes, please feel free to correct me. Cheers.
 
This sounds like a legal discussion of what is pornography! We all know it when we see it (well...I mean...IF we were to see it...:eek: ) but we cannot agree on a definition of it. And if we do find a definition, there will always be traditional knives that technically don't meet the definition, and also non-traditional knives that happen to fall within the definition. This forum seems to be populated by people with a fair idea of what THEY think of as traditional knives. I suppose your own tradition will determine your definition - if your grandfather had carried around a black serrated spring-assisted tanto, and your father, then to you, that would be a traditional knife.

Sounds to me like all we will get for a definition is, if you're interested in the latest in gadgetry, you probably will be bored here. If you want to talk about & share your appreciation for what you think of as traditional, come on in! If somebody else doesn't think it's traditional, you just won't get any replies to your posting, and pretty soon you'll realize that you'll find more kindred souls on another forum. After all, the only reason we post is because we like to chat with kindred souls, right? If the topic bores you, walk away, otherwise, stick around & chat!
 
I don't define my daily carry by sheeple reaction, I define my carry in terms of legality, practicality and actual needs. I also understand that as I said earlier that anyone, knifenut or not, knows that one handers, whether they be gents knives or heavy duty tacticals, have a great advantage over conventional two handers for defensive or aggressive actions because they can be opened much more quickly. That is a simple fact. As for this forum, I have always said that to me traditional knives are those patterns that have been long recognized by collectors like doctor's patterns, stockman, trappers, etc. Old fashioned autos could be considered traditional but they have their own forum. Even older patterns that were clearly designed for fighting like bowies and folding bowies are traditionals. I just don't think that tacticals and manual one handers, which date back to the 1980's and didn't really catch on unitl the 1990's can yet be considered traditional. That will depend on their staying power as designs.
 
Main Entry: 1tac·tic
Pronunciation: 'tak-tik
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin tactica, from Greek taktikE, from feminine of taktikos
Date: 1640
1 : a device for accomplishing an end
2 : a method of employing forces in combat

Text: 1 made or carried out with only a limited or immediate end in view <had time only for tactical decisions and not strategic planning>


What many are referring to as "tactical" knives are essentially folders that are designed to act like fixed blades in that they can be relied upon to accept a level of duty that is more akin to a fixed blade knife than what "traditional" folders were expected to achieve.

I think of "traditional" knife patterns as having evolved while there was a clear definition between fixed blades and folding knives.

The desire for concealment (and possibly carrying comfort) is really the only reason to ask a folding knife to try an replace the fixed blade designs which are inherently more reliable and less expensive than any folding knife of similar material construction.

I don't think of materials, however, as having a thing to do with any of these definitions. The sole exception might be to point to certain materials which allow greater mechanical reliability in a folding knife.
 
I think what really made the separation was the "walker lock" and all of the "tactical" type knives that followed.Custom folder makers started putting man made scales on their customs and the "tacts" were born.Look back at the custom makers 25 or 30 years ago.Not many "man" made scales.
 
I think that the problem is that traditional and tactical don't compare well.
Traditional and modern would work.
Alot of what folks call tactical could be called modern.
Tactical is a use, or a role if you will, not a style. If TSHTF and I ran out the door with only my kitchen knife, it would be pressed into a tactical role.
As I said before, my forged coffin handled bowie is a tactical knife. And it was the premier tacknife of its day. Times have changed, laws have changed. Newer tacknives are smaller and usually fold.
I think a good line to draw (between modern and traditional) would be with the modern Walker Liner Lock. Lockbacks have been around for quite a while. So has the linerlock, but it was tauted as more of a 'safety' back in the pre-Walker days.
That line would be much harder to define with FB's, I guess you could use supersteels and manmade handle materials.

An enlightening discussion, to be sure :)
 
Modern... I like that. but let's face it... some knives have been designed with the word TACTICAL blended into their steel. Take MOD's knives for instance... wow... mean pieces of work... and the aggression is very evident there... and Ryan's Biohazard branded knives... very very mean looking... I love some of the recurve designs he has...

I guess my point is that there aren't clear delineations as to how we can categorise knives; there's no black and white... just varying degrees of gray.

I'm happy with the definition 'modern' but, well... do we HAVE to take discussions of 'modern' knives off to another forum? *sigh* can't I stay and play in this sandbox too?
 
Sure, stay.
I'm sure there is something that is modern traditional, like the Randall No. 1, to talk about ;)
Come to think of it that is tactical too :D
 
Originally posted by Ebbtide
Sure, stay.
I'm sure there is something that is modern traditional, like the Randall No. 1, to talk about ;)
Come to think of it that is tactical too :D
Click to expand...

bwahahaha... you just can't win! hey, if you think about it... Kim Bowie's knife was tactical too then! hahaha... so I guess we're left with pukkos and corkscrew knives... hehehe :D
 
Well, now that several of the folk's have posted their
views here is mine. The same one I posted on Knifeforums
and applies just as well here............

I posted that any knife that
was NOT a "Tactical" design was really traditional in both design
and function. I'd guess that based on all that's been posted so
far that in order to define a "Traditional" it is necessary to
define what design features consititue a "Tactical" knife.

To me "Tactical" knife design will have the following features:

1.) a pocket clip of some type
2.) have a blade locking method of some type
3.) use Hi tech material for both the blade and the handle
4.) have some type of method to open / close one handed
5.) use some type of coating on the blade to darken the steel.
6.) be largely all black in color overall.
7.) use very little ,if any. natural material any where on the knife.
8.) employ blade shapes / grinds not commonly found in knife designs of the past.

These are the design features that I find seperate the current modern "Tacticals" from
all of the knives of the past . Viewed from that perspective the Buck 110 & 112 etc.
would very much be in the Traditional field.
 
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