Knockoff hatchets?

3

311climber

Joined
Jun 13, 2020
Messages
108
curious about these india belt axes. there are two people selling them on ebay. one in the us and one in india. the us guy has a huge post about the origins of them possibly being made by the british east india company. would there be any thought of actual NOS or knockoffs? i dont know if these should be worth 2k each or if its just some goons screwing people online? any thoughts

us sellers listing (has huge description at bottom of page) US seller

india seller with completely crap info as fas as steel type etc. India Seller has two listings. one seems rough and one seems kind of ground off on the bits. 2nd India Listing

I know people are selling so many fakes these days maybe it could save a few people the misfortune if their fake…. not sure
 
SwissHeritageCo said:
"Possibly" made by the british east india company.. NOS from the 18th century?... "damascus steel"... I think you have your answer. They are absolutely reproductions.
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thank you obviously i know its not damascus made then haha! its sad how many people get screwed not knowing the history of things well enough. i thought the style was cool. wonder if they would take a 30$ offer haha. tbh even the us sellers look similar but he had a huge pile of them claiming rights to some foundries. pretty f-ed up if hes full of shit.
 
what really sucks is that I quite like the looks of these and the heads seem very well forged , and it's a shame that they're selling them for such a high price along with a very likely phony story.

The common " Kentucky belt axe " reproductions that you can find online are available for under $50, if these were around that price I'd be tempted to but one and rehandle it.
The flat board handle is a big no-go for me and I'd have to make something else, but otherwise I'd like to see how good the heads may be.
 
311climber said:
thank you obviously i know its not damascus made then haha! its sad how many people get screwed not knowing the history of things well enough. i thought the style was cool. wonder if they would take a 30$ offer haha. tbh even the us sellers look similar but he had a huge pile of them claiming rights to some foundries. pretty f-ed up if hes full of shit.
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As a note, "Damascus steel" was named such because wootz steel from India was traded in Damascus, not because it was made there.
 
Hickory n steel said:
what really sucks is that I quite like the looks of these and the heads seem very well forged , and it's a shame that they're selling them for such a high price along with a very likely phony story.

The common " Kentucky belt axe " reproductions that you can find online are available for under $50, if these were around that price I'd be tempted to but one and rehandle it.
The flat board handle is a big no-go for me and I'd have to make something else, but otherwise I'd like to see how good the heads may be.
Click to expand...
I suspect these are castings, not forged. The location of the isolated grinding marks is indicative of sprue removal.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
I suspect these are castings, not forged. The location of the isolated grinding marks is indicative of sprue removal.
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You could very well be right, they sure do look a little too even and consistent.


I also noticed the color in the 1st few pictures from the American seller, it has the looks of something that was recently oil quenched or cold blued.
 
Hickory n steel said:
You could very well be right, they sure do look a little too even and consistent.


I also noticed the color in the 1st few pictures from the American seller, it has the looks of something that was recently oil quenched or cold blued.
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Way too consistent indeed, GB doesn't come close to that level of repeatability.

Could just be one had the scale left on and the others were wire brushed off.
 
Hickory n steel said:
what really sucks is that I quite like the looks of these and the heads seem very well forged , and it's a shame that they're selling them for such a high price along with a very likely phony story.

The common " Kentucky belt axe " reproductions that you can find online are available for under $50, if these were around that price I'd be tempted to but one and rehandle it.
The flat board handle is a big no-go for me and I'd have to make something else, but otherwise I'd like to see how good the heads may be.
Click to expand...
yeah i felt the same way. kick ass looking hatchet, so i sent a offer of 40$ to the india guy haha. he countered at 180 so i countered at 30.

i did find this page then as well which went into more specifics if them being fake/repos like SwissHeritageCo SwissHeritageCo said.

Please beware of any Phillip Skene Foundry tomahawks, Zane Foundry, fake Ticonderoga, pirate treasure or Maurice Foundry tomahawks, cannon balls, spears, pikes, bayonets, etc. These originate from a seller from Gore, Virginia who for 20+ years has written his own 'documentation' with all these elaborate stories designed to arouse your love of history, then signs it himself as the grand daughter of James Dunn in 1937....or some other person whom they know you won't likely follow up on, to faked modern repro items artificially 'aged' or old ones recently imported from Eastern Europe, Middle East, etc. as Revolutionary War or Indian tomahawks. (There is an example shown on this page about half way down. Upon looking up census data for Ticonderoga, NY. during the period for this James Dunn & his 'museum' you will discover there was no such person (or grand daughter) living there in the 1920s, 30's or 40's, etc. This seller now often sells to other online sellers with his fake documentation. One recently went so far as to claim the British East India Company trade axes from India here during the Revolutionary War. They just happened to look new & unused! lol. Claims are easy. Evidence takes a little more than that. http://www.furtradetomahawks.com/more-fakes-mistakes-and-reproductions--2.html No doubt the story will change as time progresses. [update: after reading this the seller has changed the stories to Jamestown, Alamo, Continental Navy, Fort Sumter, Pirate Treasure...its amazing what people will believe.] Foundries never made tomahawks. Blacksmiths did. Often even his cannon balls aren't even cannon balls, they are steel mill balls for breaking down mined ore rock, yet they sell like cord wood-- all supposedly from famous battles --naturally. http://www.civilwardealers.com/fakes/ If it was sold as owned by George Washington there will always be some to believe they can buy if for $189 on ebay. It only takes one mark to fall for it & they KNOW it. Interestingly most of his buyers now are other re-sellers passing along the same phony story with it.
 
Hickory n steel said:
You could very well be right, they sure do look a little too even and consistent.


I also noticed the color in the 1st few pictures from the American seller, it has the looks of something that was recently oil quenched or cold blued.
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i reached to the american seller with the link asking about authenticity and im sure it will be some bs that comes back or if hes smart he will just shut up.
 
after not responding at all they follow up with this shit. wtf is Richard Gore aka mr dick gore

New message from: b24d (4,507RED_STAR Star)​

Most of gores items come from old collections which he clearly states. His letters are not made up, they are history. Today's collectors know so little history they think his stories are made up. He is an honest seller.​

 
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