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Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame
- Thread starter ncrockclimb
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i just wish he’d respond as to how he got a private conversation to publish that was between Guy and Bob of NSM, and not “The_Rascal”.
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Ilikesharpstuff
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Anyone else love the irony of the name of Guy's apologist? Especially now that he seems to be leaking inside info?
Whether or not the steel is at fault for some number of knives that won't make it out of Survive's workshop, it changes little to nothing about their horrible business as a whole. This is just the latest in a years long line of excuses why customers haven't received their knives in a timely manner or at all. You guys know the old saying that if everyone you meet is a jerk, you're the jerk? I think the same applies to blame. If nothing is ever your fault, it is. As the kids say, when you point a finger, there are four pointing back at you.
Whether or not the steel is at fault for some number of knives that won't make it out of Survive's workshop, it changes little to nothing about their horrible business as a whole. This is just the latest in a years long line of excuses why customers haven't received their knives in a timely manner or at all. You guys know the old saying that if everyone you meet is a jerk, you're the jerk? I think the same applies to blame. If nothing is ever your fault, it is. As the kids say, when you point a finger, there are four pointing back at you.
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Not surprisingly, many questions remain unanswered. (Per usual, this appears to be a feature, not a bug.)
How much steel was involved? How much of it was in the hands of Survive? When was the particular melt from? Was it previously identified by Crucible and / or Niagra?
Getting a snapshot in isolation is not the same as seeing the entirety of the picture. (And that's the point...isn't it?)
I'll reach out and see if I can get a hold of Bob Shabala in case he wants to address this.
ETA: Bob, texted me back and will reach out later. I'll report what I can, or leave it to him to do so if he chooses.
How much steel was involved? How much of it was in the hands of Survive? When was the particular melt from? Was it previously identified by Crucible and / or Niagra?
Getting a snapshot in isolation is not the same as seeing the entirety of the picture. (And that's the point...isn't it?)
I'll reach out and see if I can get a hold of Bob Shabala in case he wants to address this.
ETA: Bob, texted me back and will reach out later. I'll report what I can, or leave it to him to do so if he chooses.
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Even with the information provided by our "friend" here we have two unverified pieces
#1 The email itself is not coming from either party and is thus unverified information
#2 Guys claim in the email, presuming the email is real, is not with NSM and NSM has told him to take his case to CPM where the claim has yet to be proven
#1 The email itself is not coming from either party and is thus unverified information
#2 Guys claim in the email, presuming the email is real, is not with NSM and NSM has told him to take his case to CPM where the claim has yet to be proven
Kbrasmodeler
Gold Member
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I have proof that Bribon is lying for guy.
r8shell
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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You'd think Guy would have chosen a better alt name.Anyone else love the irony of the name of Guy's apologist? Especially now that he seems to be leaking inside info?
Whether or not the steel is at fault for some number of knives that won't make it out of Survive's workshop, it changes little to nothing about their horrible business as a whole. This is just the latest in a years long line of excuses why customers haven't received their knives in a timely manner or at all. You guys know the old saying that if everyone you meet is a jerk, you're the jerk? I think the same applies to blame. If nothing is ever your fault, it is. As the kids say, when you point a finger, there are four pointing back at you.
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- Oct 2, 1998
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Just heard back from Bob Shabala of Niagra Specialty Metals, (NSM). He told me that he has not sold any steel to Survive! since November, 2022, but that they had sent some in January of 2023. The January, 2023 portion was sent at no charge to replace steel that Guy had reported earlier to have had issues with. (So, any possible issues being reported with the steel are from earlier melts / heats which have already been discussed, identified and dealt with previously. He has no recent steel from them.)
Niagra, according to Bob, had offered to replace any steel and blades at their own cost, simply based upon trying to keep a customer satisfied without requiring proof from Survive! that there was any underlying issue. Survive!, however, did not take them up on the offer, asking or demanding hundreds of thousands of dollars as compensation instead. Niagra refused to accede to the demand as they had only sent approximately $30,000.00 worth of steel in total to Survive!, and they believe that the issues that Survive! has reported were induced by something in their handling and processing.
Bob stated that he did send that message to Guy, (which was presented in a post yesterday), without bothering to look at any video that Guy is reported to have sent. He further mentioned that Guy called Crucible asking for them to sell him MagnaCut directly, but that they told him they don't sell sheets and he would have to deal with Niagra. (Which is why NSM told him in the message posted yesterday that they had no interest in dealing with him as a customer anymore.)
Reportedly, Guy admitted to Crucible that he couldn't get steel from Bohler or other sources, and that he had handled the entire matter poorly and now regrets it.
Bob gave me permission to summarize our conversation and stated that he does not intend to post further in this thread as he considers his dealings with Survive! to be concluded.
Any errors made in this summary are mine alone, and not Bob's fault as I did not record it or take notes during our discussion.
Niagra, according to Bob, had offered to replace any steel and blades at their own cost, simply based upon trying to keep a customer satisfied without requiring proof from Survive! that there was any underlying issue. Survive!, however, did not take them up on the offer, asking or demanding hundreds of thousands of dollars as compensation instead. Niagra refused to accede to the demand as they had only sent approximately $30,000.00 worth of steel in total to Survive!, and they believe that the issues that Survive! has reported were induced by something in their handling and processing.
Bob stated that he did send that message to Guy, (which was presented in a post yesterday), without bothering to look at any video that Guy is reported to have sent. He further mentioned that Guy called Crucible asking for them to sell him MagnaCut directly, but that they told him they don't sell sheets and he would have to deal with Niagra. (Which is why NSM told him in the message posted yesterday that they had no interest in dealing with him as a customer anymore.)
Reportedly, Guy admitted to Crucible that he couldn't get steel from Bohler or other sources, and that he had handled the entire matter poorly and now regrets it.
Bob gave me permission to summarize our conversation and stated that he does not intend to post further in this thread as he considers his dealings with Survive! to be concluded.
Any errors made in this summary are mine alone, and not Bob's fault as I did not record it or take notes during our discussion.
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Omg. I almost spit out my coffee, laughing so hard.I have proof that Bribon is lying for guy.
Confirmed yet again that Guy tells a compelling story - David vs. Goliath, support small businesses, MIUSA, etc. - that falls apart the minute the other side comments on what actually happened.
The guy is burning down his business in real time. So Crucible and Bohler won't sell to him directly (which makes me wonder where he got his K890?), neither will NSM, and he even threw Peters' under the bus. All companies with great reputations as far as I know.
Business is relationships, and he's destroying any and all he had. What's his end goal here? So many small businesses would kill for the momentum he had in the beginning, yet here he is about to blacklist himself from an entire industry.
Sad situation all around, to be honest. I don't blame the other companies for not speaking on the matter, even for simple clarification, because to be associated with Survive! is probably a liability at this point.
The guy is burning down his business in real time. So Crucible and Bohler won't sell to him directly (which makes me wonder where he got his K890?), neither will NSM, and he even threw Peters' under the bus. All companies with great reputations as far as I know.
Business is relationships, and he's destroying any and all he had. What's his end goal here? So many small businesses would kill for the momentum he had in the beginning, yet here he is about to blacklist himself from an entire industry.
Sad situation all around, to be honest. I don't blame the other companies for not speaking on the matter, even for simple clarification, because to be associated with Survive! is probably a liability at this point.
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thank you for posting this.
So, who is El_Bribon ? Just anther shill that happens to have access to Guy's phone? Employee? Guy or Ellie?
Again and again, posters show up on this forum and promote the narrative that S!K is really not that bad and that they are just about to get it together. I have long believed that these posts were (for the most part) not organic, and rather an attempt by S!K to soften the info being presented in this thread. El_Bribon posting this text strengthens that belief.
I have yet to see any the lab results or real evidence from S!K. Again, without full documentation, including the name of the lab and exactly what tests and analysis the lab performed and how S!K's "lab reports" differ from a analysis performed on a sample of "non-contaminated" steel, all we have is S!K saying "things." Guy and Ellie lie. A lot. Without a lot of proof, anything they say is suspect.
Given the explanation from Bob Shabala of Niagra Specialty Metals (via Blues), I do not seen the text as being a "smoking gun." Rather, it is Bob telling guy to f-off in the most professional manner possible.
Finally, It would seem that Guy has successfully burned bridges with NSM, Peters and a few other suppliers. I am not sure where he goes from here, but whatever challenges he has are 100% on him and Ellie.
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Ask yourselves this...
How many reputable makers and companies are producing knives with MagnaCut? Including many of the largest and most popular concerns with a presence on these forums.
How many of our forum members here have been buying these knives, fixed and folding, from this multitude of custom makers and manufacturers?
Outside of Survive!, where is all the wailing and gnashing of teeth? Where are all the threads listing flaws in edge retention, heat treat, cosmetics, grinding, warping, pits, and various and sundry other defects?
It speaks for itself. And, even giving the devil his due...let's say there were some issues, for argument's sake. Why in the world would any person of character try to bend NSM over and leverage their issues into a settlement worth many times their investment into the material they are reporting as unsuitable? And how many times has this allegation of unsuitability been trotted out over the years to cover up non-fulfillment of orders paid up front?
And yet he still tries an end run around NSM and approaches Crucible to try to get his hands on MagnaCut? Why would anyone in their right mind want even more of this material after alleging these various imperfections as being ruinous to his business? Who's zooming who?
I would argue that a reasonable person would find that the overwhelming evidence all points in one direction where a finding of fault can be made.
Use your common sense.
How many reputable makers and companies are producing knives with MagnaCut? Including many of the largest and most popular concerns with a presence on these forums.
How many of our forum members here have been buying these knives, fixed and folding, from this multitude of custom makers and manufacturers?
Outside of Survive!, where is all the wailing and gnashing of teeth? Where are all the threads listing flaws in edge retention, heat treat, cosmetics, grinding, warping, pits, and various and sundry other defects?
It speaks for itself. And, even giving the devil his due...let's say there were some issues, for argument's sake. Why in the world would any person of character try to bend NSM over and leverage their issues into a settlement worth many times their investment into the material they are reporting as unsuitable? And how many times has this allegation of unsuitability been trotted out over the years to cover up non-fulfillment of orders paid up front?
And yet he still tries an end run around NSM and approaches Crucible to try to get his hands on MagnaCut? Why would anyone in their right mind want even more of this material after alleging these various imperfections as being ruinous to his business? Who's zooming who?
I would argue that a reasonable person would find that the overwhelming evidence all points in one direction where a finding of fault can be made.
Use your common sense.
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To your point, as of today, there are 445 knives listed on BladeHQ that are made from Magnacut. At the beginning of this year, Peters’ Heat Treating claimed to have processed over 64,000 blades of Magnacut for 100’s of different customers. 3V is an even more widely used and established steel. There are almost NO ISSUES reported with Crucibles' steels.
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That's exactly how the message read to me - "Gee wiz, seems like you have a problem elsewhere!"
Who can blame Bob for that response? The poor fellow's had a 2 year long back-and-forth with an obstinate customer.
Maybe not the best thing, because water carriers like E El_Bribon would latch onto that and take it as gospel truth that it's anyone but Guy's fault.
Surely BF would not be surprised that this is the case.
Be on the lookout for new offerings, now made in MagnaButt.
E, if you talk to Bob again, tell him we said thanks for the info, and we appreciate it.
Thank you, Blues, for going out of your way to find this out for us.
... friggin' Guy Seiferd and his water carriers...